Tuner and advancing timing
12-19-2010, 07:27 AM
#1
CMOC Veteran
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Saskatoon
Posts: 271
Tuner and advancing timing
So this sct tuner allows me to advance timing in 3 different rpm ranges. So what can I do to max power outta this thing. And yes I always run premium. Tuning gurus get in here before I shatter a piston
12-19-2010, 01:21 PM
#2
CMOC Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 465
If you adjust the timing only advance in small increments and listen for knock. Advance the timing and take it out for a ride. listen for knock at normal driving conditions as well as WOT. If you hear any back off the timing until it is gone. Before doing all this I would research logging with the SCT and log such things as LTF bank 1, 2, STF Bank 1, 2, Knock Bank 1, 2, Timing, A/F ratio...ect. Where did you purchase your SCT from. I have a Predator but plan on getting a SCT from American Muscle. AM tech may be a good place to start. I would phone them and ask what data would be good to monitor while making these changes as well as the data range that is safe to run. Always do good research before making changes. I used to tune Chevs around here and one of the biggest things was I would not do any tuning unless they had a Wide Band A/F gauge so I could monitor what the car was commanding as to not blow things.
Cheers
Cheers
12-19-2010, 02:23 PM
#4
CMOC Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 465
Ok here is a list, it is a bit technical... hope it makes sense.
Time (sec)
CAM_ADAPTIVE[0]
CAM_ADAPTIVE[1]
spark
IMRC_AD_COUNTS
IMRC_CMNDED_OPN
IMRD_DES_POS
imrc_open
CYL1_KNK_THRES through CYL 8
KNK_SEN_1_NOISE
KNK_SEN_2_NOISE
AIR_FLOW_#/MIN
MAF_AD_COUNTS
SPARK_SOURCE
pedal_position
Here is a little more info on tuning.
it depends what you're interested in examining. To really do any significant tuning, you have to invest in a wideband air-fuel ratio sensor and then use it as an analog input to the tuner. This let's you find out exactly how rich / lean you're running. The sensor, of course has to be installed in the exhaust upstream of the cats.
Now, with the stock system and PIDs you can still see how the system is behaving. Knock sensor readings are a good one. Noise on the KNK sensors means the ignition is too early for the fuel mixture and conditions. This could point to a lean condition. Watching the fuel trims (both long and short terms) can tell you somewhat how the a/f mixture is running. These trims are calculated by the ECM in response to readings from the O2 sensors. If the engine need more fuel to hit the pre-programmed a/f, the trim is positive. If the engine is running richer than what the computer wants, it sets a negative trim to decrease fuel input. The problem with these is you have no real idea what target the ECM is aiming for. related to these is injection pulse width. The higher the pulse width, the more fuel it's dumping in. Watching the total timing advance, charge motion plates, and valve timing (VVT) can be interesting, too. Intake air temp is useful if you're looking to compare a cai to stock and MAF voltage output can tell you how much the engine is breathing in.
The handheld SCT will only let you decrease timing and increase fuel, as a safety against running the car lean and killing the engine. What it boils down to is that you can fix it if it's not running right, but you can't do much to push their tunes further. But that's probably good with out a dyno and a lot of time.
The second gear run is the best test, putting the car under heavy load with out getting crazy fast on public roads. On the other hand, if you have a problem under a particular condition, that's where you want to run it.
If you want more info than you ever cared to know about EFI, pick up the book "How to tune and modify engine management systems" by Jeff Hartman. It's part of the Motorbooks workshop series.
I would Contact American Muscle and get there Bama 87 performance, 91 performance and 91 race tunes. For $150 you get all three tunes and tuning for life if you add any further mods. I will be picking up my tuner next week from AM and ordering those three tunes. I will then data log the tunes and send the files back to AM to tweak my tunes for me. I will probably have to do this a few times to get the tunes dialed in but for the most part they will really wake up your car straight out of the box
Cheers
Time (sec)
CAM_ADAPTIVE[0]
CAM_ADAPTIVE[1]
spark
IMRC_AD_COUNTS
IMRC_CMNDED_OPN
IMRD_DES_POS
imrc_open
CYL1_KNK_THRES through CYL 8
KNK_SEN_1_NOISE
KNK_SEN_2_NOISE
AIR_FLOW_#/MIN
MAF_AD_COUNTS
SPARK_SOURCE
pedal_position
Here is a little more info on tuning.
it depends what you're interested in examining. To really do any significant tuning, you have to invest in a wideband air-fuel ratio sensor and then use it as an analog input to the tuner. This let's you find out exactly how rich / lean you're running. The sensor, of course has to be installed in the exhaust upstream of the cats.
Now, with the stock system and PIDs you can still see how the system is behaving. Knock sensor readings are a good one. Noise on the KNK sensors means the ignition is too early for the fuel mixture and conditions. This could point to a lean condition. Watching the fuel trims (both long and short terms) can tell you somewhat how the a/f mixture is running. These trims are calculated by the ECM in response to readings from the O2 sensors. If the engine need more fuel to hit the pre-programmed a/f, the trim is positive. If the engine is running richer than what the computer wants, it sets a negative trim to decrease fuel input. The problem with these is you have no real idea what target the ECM is aiming for. related to these is injection pulse width. The higher the pulse width, the more fuel it's dumping in. Watching the total timing advance, charge motion plates, and valve timing (VVT) can be interesting, too. Intake air temp is useful if you're looking to compare a cai to stock and MAF voltage output can tell you how much the engine is breathing in.
The handheld SCT will only let you decrease timing and increase fuel, as a safety against running the car lean and killing the engine. What it boils down to is that you can fix it if it's not running right, but you can't do much to push their tunes further. But that's probably good with out a dyno and a lot of time.
The second gear run is the best test, putting the car under heavy load with out getting crazy fast on public roads. On the other hand, if you have a problem under a particular condition, that's where you want to run it.
If you want more info than you ever cared to know about EFI, pick up the book "How to tune and modify engine management systems" by Jeff Hartman. It's part of the Motorbooks workshop series.
I would Contact American Muscle and get there Bama 87 performance, 91 performance and 91 race tunes. For $150 you get all three tunes and tuning for life if you add any further mods. I will be picking up my tuner next week from AM and ordering those three tunes. I will then data log the tunes and send the files back to AM to tweak my tunes for me. I will probably have to do this a few times to get the tunes dialed in but for the most part they will really wake up your car straight out of the box
Cheers
12-19-2010, 03:24 PM
#5
CMOC Veteran
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Saskatoon
Posts: 271
Thank you very much for the input. I planned on enrolling in the tunes for life deal. What have you got for mods. If we are similar I wonder if you can email me a copy. I will pay you of course. Pm me with your mods and we can see if I can help subsidize one or 2 tunes with you. Thanks for your help. I have an open mind for learning and I am soaking this up. Thanks again and merry Christmas
12-19-2010, 04:16 PM
#6
CMOC Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 465
Anytime....
As much as I would love to give you my tunes or the tunes I will get, there is a problem. Each tuner has its own strategy code written into the tune and is specific to the car. They also request your VIN and such, you will see when you order tunes from them. So unfortunately I/we can not share tunes. It is how they stop folks from sharing tuners.
Once i get my SCT I will be doing some logging. I wil be in contact with AM to find out what data would be most useful to them so that I can fine tune the car. I am pretty sure that the list I posted above is all you would require to get you started. Doug at Bama is a hell of a guy and now that he has joined forces with AM there tunes are even better as well as customer service.
Cheers and Merry X-mas
As much as I would love to give you my tunes or the tunes I will get, there is a problem. Each tuner has its own strategy code written into the tune and is specific to the car. They also request your VIN and such, you will see when you order tunes from them. So unfortunately I/we can not share tunes. It is how they stop folks from sharing tuners.
Once i get my SCT I will be doing some logging. I wil be in contact with AM to find out what data would be most useful to them so that I can fine tune the car. I am pretty sure that the list I posted above is all you would require to get you started. Doug at Bama is a hell of a guy and now that he has joined forces with AM there tunes are even better as well as customer service.
Cheers and Merry X-mas
