Ponyryd

iTrader: (5)

Thanks again, but no thanks.

I'd say that 90% of what I have learned is from doing. I'm sure you'll understand that I'd rather not be taught things I already know and that have worked for me and others 100 times over.

In all honesty, debate is cool and I have no problem with it, but I don't get into heated debates on the net anymore-not worth it at all and nothing ever gets solved.
I even remeber debating with you the differences between import and domestic vehicles, to which I came away thinking you would never own anything but a Ford (or other big 3 vehicle), only to see recently that you are a German vehicle fan...........

Really though, just sit back and think about it, more air=more power right? Well if you can cram in more air, why not do it? A bigger TB will flow more air, plain and simple, even if the Intake is now the restriction, the TB has helped. Like you said though, it needs to match the intake. But it not only should match the intake, but the engine as well-stock engine, best off with close to stock TB.

If you feel you are right, that's fine, but going and posting it up on another board seems like an attempt to further prove how RIGHT you are and how WRONG I am seems excessive to me.

Just look at Scones for example, he ran awesome times with a mostly stock car and a bunch of elbow grease, no hi-po parts, just trial and error attempts on his own.

OVERKILL

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, Scones did have great results! I do recall another thread on GTAMC during one of our lovely import debates when I did mention that I liked BMW's as well. I've liked them for a LONG time.... So this isn't anything new I just don't like most Asian cars.

FWIW, a pretty cool example of "fast with Junk" was Red Death (brought it up earlier) which was built to prove a point..... Went 11.19 with STOCK GT40 irons, custom cam, Systemax II lower, box upper, 90mm TB and 4.56's. Pretty impressive stuff.

And I agree, our own experiences are often what we gauge future experiences/advice against. Another FWIW, I was told I would have HUGE "tip in" and drivability issues with my 75mm TB. I didn't. The 75 worked perfectly and behaved just like the stocker. I would attribute this to the big-*** intake it's on with a genuine 75mm opening on it (as I'm sure you have experienced, some intakes aren't what they claim to be; 70mm openings being more like 68mm...etc).

To me, there always seems to be something more to learn in this hobby, another trick or tip as to how to improve your performance/reduce your ET and the like. We are never done learning, and while I love the experience of working on my car, if I can improve that experience by following advice given to me by people who have been there, done that 1,000's of times and with EXTREMELY good results, then I will incorporate those things into what I'm doing.

That was my experience with the TB thing. The Internet Experts on the Coral were all saying it was too big. Jay's advice I had read in other threads (back when he still contributed over there) as well as others who genuinely seemed to be "with it", said otherwise. So, I bought the 75mm and it worked fine. But it IS on a big-*** intake.

IMHO, research is a lot more cost effective than trial and error in this hobby

nickm50

dude, your car did NOT drive like a stocker! Remember when trish used it for a week and would not drive it? she dumped it on me and took my stang. I can tell you it did not drive right, if you tried to cruise with it it would buck like "a wild stallion" you had to be at an idle or always into it to be able to drive it, and 300hp on stock tires is a handfull so she wouldn't drive it.

OVERKILL

iTrader: (3)

LOL! Yeah I remember that

The bucking/surging wasn't the TB though, it was the TPS. When I fixed the TPS ground issue, it was fine. It originally didn't do it either, when it was up at DaSilva's being tuned, it was well behaved. It developed that a while later, and was doing it for quite some time until I figured it out. that problem had me freaking baffled for a while............. Anyways, it drove much like a stocker after that, and would start like one too. But when that problem was occurring, yeah, it was a HUGE PITA and pretty much only worked well at idle after it figured itself out, and then at anywhere above 1/4 to 1/2 throttle.

Ponyryd

iTrader: (5)

^Yes it is, but not always as effective. "On paper" doesn't always work in the real world.


^Entirely different topic, but it's still something I don't get.
You would fight tooth-and-nail about how great Ford is and all imports are crap (no matter what real-world evidence I presented stating otherwise), then you like a BM? Kinda hypocritycal IMO.
I guess I'm just saying to have an open mind a little. I too am up for a debate but as I said I don't spend a lot of time on-line, so it's hard to debate like once, twice a day. Plus, when I'm online, I do what I want and don't wanna feel obligated to "check-in" on what people are saying about whatever.
I never liked imports (but didn't hate them) 'till I got in the trade and the quality differences are unbelievable! (IMO). Believe it or not, I was a Chevy guy 'till I bought my first Mustang.................

Stang Illusions 5.0L

iTrader: (10)

I had the SAME problem when I put on my 70mm TB on my stocker, so I swapped it back but the problem stayed even with the stocker.....(Ended up being TB Gasket LOL) gotta love un-metered air.

I no were your coming from I am in the same situation.....i've owned AT LEAST 30-40 vehicles since I was 15, Im now 27 all of them being Chevy's.
My first ford was my Mercury Goes Fast, I bought it for a winter beater.
Then I bought my Mustang.
I think I will stick with GM's other cars over Ford's, like seriously look at the Focus base model and then look at the cavalier way better design.
Thats just me.
I use to hate Honda's, but when your up in the city like Toronto/Hamilton you better have a fast car, and you better be ready cause the Honda's are fast for what they are

I can see were PonyRyd is coming from, It would be like the same thing putting a Fully Ported aluminum lower intake manifold on stock heads (Well not that extreme) but there will be a resistance.
Or like putting a fully ported upper and lower together and not port matching the gasket, so theres going to be a slight "**** poor flow"
UNLESS you port the opening on the stock upper, I don't think I can agree with you sorry Chris, maybe Im getting the wrong picture.

Post the link to the thread Chris I myself would like to look this up.

OVERKILL

iTrader: (3)

Keith, I said match the TB size to the opening on the intake, which is exactly what you are saying. My intake has a 75mm opening, so I run a 75mm TB. If your intake has a smaller TB opening, don't run a TB that is bigger than the opening (unless you port it out to accommodate the larger TB) because that will cause reversion. We are on the same page here. And when the current topic over on SBFTech (347 vs 331) is finished, I hope Jay will make this the next one, and, as promised, I will link it here. Should be a neat topic, and I'd like to see other people's views on it.

OVERKILL

iTrader: (3)

LOL! I see you've met engineers before This is VERY true, not everything on paper works better. That's typically why I look for info that there is actual proof of it being done, and done with great success first.




It's not hypocritical, I feel the Japanese, and many other Asian car manufacturers rip off other people's engineering. The Germans have been very much the pioneers in MANY different areas, including cars. And it's not necessarily the cars behind it, but much of the attitude associated with many people in that circle I guess. Calling Japanese cars "high tech" because of various technologies that they will attribute to Japanese invention, but in fact were invented decades earlier by other manufacturers.

A couple of examples:

Variable Valve Timing. Invented by a German engineer, originally used on steam engines.

Electronic Fuel Injection. Ford used EFI (and SEFI) long before Honda did, as did I believe GM.

Overhead cams. Ford was using these in the 60's. The DOHC Indy Cammer is one example, as is the 427 SOHC.

I guess in retrospect, it's not the cars I hate per se, you cannot really, with any respect to sanity, hate an inanimate object. It's more the attitude of those who own them (and yes, I am generalizing, obvious an 80 year old lady who loves her civic isn't wielding an attitude).

Most technology is borrowed in one way, shape or form. Ford didn't invent the automobile, they didn't invent overhead cams, and they definitely didn't invent fuel injection. But Ford was making cars when Mr. Honda was still a child. Hell, if I remember correctly (and I might be wrong) but Ford was using overhead cams when Honda was still making motorcycles and cars weren't even considered yet!

But you talk to any Ricer and the Japanese invented EVERYTHING and anything domestic is super low-tech and WAY behind in EVERY WAY. Meanwhile, they could be driving a mid 80's carbureted prelude......

Is this helping, or am I just making things more baffling in regards to how I think?

Not that hard to believe, many people start off with a Chev. My first car was a '74 Cutlass Supreme, closely followed by an '86 Olds Custom Cruiser Wagon. My grandfather bitched my father out for buying a GM (my mom's dad) and told him to go buy himself a Lincoln. He did. it's the one I have now. It outlasted the Wagon by almost a decade thus far........ And that's all my dad will own now. My grandfather on the other hand, an Engineer for GE, was an absolute Ford NUT, often retrofitting his wooden boats with Ford powerplants. We hung out often

Ponyryd

iTrader: (5)

^Well, I agree with you there, but many (myself included) people like the cars for the simple fact that they like them. I like the way they drive, handle, hold resale, etc.....I am not a "ricer" though, and I don't think they are responsible for inventing anything outstanding.
That can be said for anyone really, Ford guys, SRT-4 guys, Jap guys, Euro guys, etc....they all seem to think they're the best no matter what-this is the wrong way to think IMO.
Plain and simple, I like many, many cars and never limit myself to a certain region or manufacturer for what I like and may buy. In the end I guess I'll buy what's right at the time.