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Turbo installation

Old 10-14-2006, 02:45 PM
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Everything you need to know about turbo installation-Single/Twin

I have been researching the correct way to install a turbo. I have been looking for a long time and finally found a good site. Here it is for those beginners like myself to know everything you want to know about turbo's and installing turbos.
Please note, I got this from another site. It is not my information, but I figured I would help those interested in turbo installing.

Part 1
Summary:

This is part one of a series of pages on how you can install a Turbo system on your loved stang.
There is a need for such a write-up since most people lack the sums of money needed to buy one of the available kits in the aftermarket. Such systems are priced above the $3.5k figures, a bit too much for most people.

We hope that with this material you will be able to make your own Turbo setup, either a single or twin turbo. Most of the stuff that you will need can be found NEW from several sources or USED from you local car-junker.

In part 1 we will try to explain in simple terms what a Turbo setup is all about. We won't go into complex details and formulas, for that we recommend the following books:

Turbochargers by Hugh MacInnes (buy direct)
Maximum Boost - Designing, Testing, and Installing Turbocharger Systems (buy direct)

The following parts in the series will try to cover specific details of what and where to purchase, 5.0 engine especific installation diagrams, actual junkyard twin turbo installation and a final chapter on tuning your setup.


Details:

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5

Part 1




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PART 1: TURBO BASICS

The exhaust gases exit through the exhaust manifolds or headers and into the Turbo.
Exhaust gases then move the Turbine wheel and exit the housing through the exhaust pipes and to the atmosphere.
The Turbine and Compressor Wheels are joined by a shaft which is lubricated by engine oil.
The compressor wheel pulls the filtered ambient air and compresses it.
The compressed air then moves into an intercooler to cool the air charge.
After the intercooler, the air charge moves into the Throttle body and intake.
The Compressed air charge enters the cylinders in a "compressed state" and so it enables the engine to draw more air into the chambers, this "synthetic" increase in compression is called "dynamic compression" or in other terms "forced induction".
This increased compression enables the engine to behave like a larger displacement engine.

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Typical Turbo System Parts

Turbo: Complete housing with Wastegate, Turbine and Compressor

Intercooler: cools Compressed air charge

Wastegate: Valve that controls the boost amount by releasing exhaust gases to the exhaust before they reach the turbine.

Considerations

FUEL: One of the priciples of internal combustion engines is that for any amount of fuel there's a need for a given air charge.

In the case of Turbos AND supercharger systems, the Increased air charge needs a proportional increase in fuel delivery. The consequence of a LEAN air fuel mixture (or lack of fuel) is called Detonation.

Detonation is the main concern on forced induction engines since it can cause severe damage to the engine.

On a stock 5.0 liter the fuel injectors are small, and at medium boost levels, the 19lph (pounds per hour) stock fuel injectors might not be enough to compensate for the increase in air charge.

COOLING: Another point of high importance is to make sure your cooling system is operating properly, the increased compression at the cylinder heads will cause an increase in engine temperature.

EXHAUST: The increase in exhaust flow and turbo backpressure makes very important to have a good exhaust system, what goes in must go out.

IGNITION: With the increase in cylinder pressure, a better spark will be needed to ignite the air/fuel mixture. This can be achieved by reducing plug gap and/or installing an aftermarket ignition system or a better coil. At low boost levels reducing plug gap could be the only needed ignition modification.

Twin Turbo and Single Turbo selection

Before you start the search for a TURBO, there are some considerations you might need to address first:

Will it be a single or twin setup?

How big a Turbo do i need?

For any given Turbo model are there any variations?

What about intercoolers?

To answer some of these questions lets just say that you have to choose your turbo(s) depending on their capabilities, a small Turbo such as the ones you find in small displacement engines like a Nissan 1.3L will be too small for a V8 5.0 or 4.6. Others such as DIESEL engine Turbos might be too big.

In order to help you decide what brand-type of turbo you need, the next application can help you a lot.

Instructions:

Engine type: select gasoline (or diesel if you have a 5 ton truck)

Number of Turbos: its your choice, we will later explain some pros-cons of both setups.

Intercooler: YES, this is the most efficient setup, you won't regret it.

Engine Capacity in CC's: for both 5.0 and 4.6 select 5,000

Maximum RPM: again your choice...will depend a lot on your actual modifications.
For a Stock 5.0 or 4.6 select 6,000 +/-

BOOST: how much you want/need? a safe limit for a STOCK 5.0 or 4.6 will be 8psi.



Now that you selected your dream setup you might have the following results:

For Single Turbo: Garret T04 probably V1 trim

For Twin Turbo: Garret T3 trim 45

Note that for every type of Turbo there are different "trim" versions, each trim has different turbine and compressor designs that promote a given characteristic such as volumetric efficiency, speed, etc.

Both setups have almost the same BHP capabilities, but there are some pro's and con's to each setup.

A Twin turbo setup will probably be more efficient than a single one at low RPMs but it is certainly more difficult to install.

The single turbo setup could have lower boost at low RPMs but a bit more on top and is easier to maintain and install.

This considerations could be affected by several variables, compressor and turbine design, piping, intercooler efficiency, etc. But consider the above assumptions as "valid" for most "stock" turbos you will find in a junkyard.

Intercooler choice:

There are some guidelines you might want to follow, choose and intercooler that was designed for an engine as big as yours (5.0L, 4.6L, etc), or BUY 2 with half the displacement of your engine. You could place each intercooler in sequence one after the other or have someone weld them together.

Don't restrict your search to Gasoline engine coolers, probably a Turbo diesel engine intercooler is what you need.

Final comments:

This ends part 1 of our Turbo How to series, we hope the provided info will prove itself useful. We would like to hear your comments and suggestions on the subject.

We want to keep this pages updated as much as possible, so if you find any inconsistencies, errors or want to suggest something, don't hesitate to do so.

END of PART 1

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5

Last edited by dice; 10-14-2006 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 10-14-2006, 02:46 PM
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Summary:

In part 2 we are going to take a look at what would you need to make your own Turbo setup, we will also try to point you to some shops that sell some of the parts, but if you want to keep cost down you might have to try your local junkyards. At the end of this document you will find an "estimated" price list.

Details:

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5

Part 2


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List of Parts:

TURBO (S) (preferred with wastegate included)

Garret T04 (single) (Trim and
Garret T3s (Dual)Name:  turbos1.jpg
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INTERCOOLERS:

You will need one big or twin intercooler's, look for intercoolers that were placed in 2 liter or larger engine Turbocharged cars, you can place them side by side or soldered together as a unit. A good radiator shop can help you with the soldering if needed.Name:  Intercoolers.jpg
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USED HEADERS

You can use stock or aftermarket headers, stock ones are a bit restrictive so i suggest getting at least a set of 1 5/8 unequal length shorties. Go to your favorite classifieds BBS or junker and look around, a decent set can be bought for $50. The headers will be modified later so don't worry too much about the quality, just make sure they are not rusted.

MANDREL BENT PIPES

For the laymen around, a Mandrel bender is a device that bends tube without distorting the shape of the tube so there are no abrupt transitions that can disrupt airflow. There are several companies around that sell PRE-BENT pipe pieces of several diameters. We will use mostly 2" and 3" inch pipes with smooth bends of 45 to 90 degrees in several radiuses. Hooker and Cartech are 2 sources that come to mind, they offer a large variety of bends.Name:  ubensflanges.jpg
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FLANGES & GASKETS

Several different flanges and gaskets will be needed to hook up everything, most noticeable are the Compressor IN and turbine OUT flanges and gaskets, also needed for the setup will be the oil in-out ones and the Compressor Outlet to your exhaust system.
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HOSES & CLAMPS

Long lasting, heat resistant hoses are needed to hook up most of the Turbine outlet to Intercooler and TB. Two good sources are Cartech or Turbocity. You will need mostly 3" diameter ones.Name:  silconehoseblue.jpg
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FUEL & ENGINE RELATED

Well, if you plan on dialing more boost, you will need more fuel to avoid detonation, here you are on your own, but plan ahead, 24 pound injectors will be a good start for a stock engine but i suggest you get at least 30 pounders, the price is almost the same and you will have a safety margin.Name:  2mustanginjectors.jpg
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To feed those injectors you will need a larger fuel pump, again don't go to the next size of 155lph, get a 190lph in tank pump.

To tune the engine for the new injectors you will need to either buy a recalibrated Mass Air Sensor (MAF) or have a Custom made chip to recalibrate your EEC. Pro-M offers two types of MAF's; pull- through or push-through. You will have to use the correct one for your application, if you are keeping the stock one, the MAF must be placed before the turbine inlet. A push-through type must be used after the intercooler to TB path.Name:  racingpump.jpg
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An adjustable fuel pressure regulator will be a valuable addition for tuning the fuel delivery.

BLOW OFF VALVE

One of the worst TURBO enemies is reverse air flow, also known as back flow. When the compressed air charge gets into the manifold, some of it wont be used and will try to go in "reverse flow" and return to the Turbine, that will make the turbine spin in reverse, that can kill a turbo in a short time. One way to avoid this is by installing a Blow off valve, which will detect the reverse flow and release it to the atmosphere. This is a good safety measure, by all means install one.

HEAT SHIELDING

One of the most common problems in a Turbo setup is how to shield some components from the heat generated by the exhaust tubes inside the engine compartment. Heat in no time can destroy your wiring, all plastic pieces and some critical electronic components. Shielding those components is a good safety and reliability measure. Other good practice is to move those components to the inside of the fender wells. One of the best insulators is aluminum, it dissipates heat very fast, also look after several brands of heat shield materials in various forms such as tape, tubes and mats. Name:  heatblanket.jpg
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Size:  2.1 KB Some manufacturers such as ThermoTec and DEI have some decent products, check out Summit Racing for more info.Name:  headerwrap.jpg
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OIL FEED

Good lubrication is very important for turbo life, you will need preferably braided line to connect the turbo oil lines to the engine. We also advise on changing your oil when you install the system.

COOLING

Increased cylinder pressure will create more heat, installing a 180 degree thermostat and a higher capacity radiator is a good safety measure if temps raise too much.

We also recommend to install a good engine oil cooler.

EXHAUST

A good exhaust will promote less back pressure and better performance, at least install a good set of low restriction mufflers.

FINAL COMMENTS

We recommend to first search for the Turbocharger(s) and Intercooler(s), then start to draw a plan on where to install.
In the case of the Twin Turbo's each Turbo will fit at 2 spots, close to the fender wells behind the headlights and over the exhaust. Some people have placed their turbo's inside the fenders, but they are hard to get at and the piping might be more complicated.

In the case of a Single Turbo setup, there are 2 preferred choices, where the battery is or at the air filter location, which side you decide to install at will depend on some variables such as REWIRING and REROUTING some pipes and harnesses, at the drivers side you might need to relocate the A/C lines, the Power Fuse Box and some wiring. At the passenger side you have the EGR plumbing, a/c stuff to name a few.

IMPORTANT: The turbo's oil feed line must ALWAYS be at the top, and drain at bottom, the oil is gravity drained.

Plan ahead and start rewiring and routing stuff before you make any attempt at doing your setup. After you do this you can even start placing the Turbo(s) and Intercooler(s) in place and then start making the intercooler to turbo pipes.

The most difficult part will be modifying and installing the exhaust to turbo pipes, to test fit these pipes you can use exhaust pipe clamps before welding them.

PARTS AND PRICES (constantly updated as we find more sources and better prices)

Optional parts in Italics

Part Name Quantity Part # Price Supplier
Garret Turbo T04 (single) 1 150 ? Junkyard, Garret, Turbocity
Garret T3 (Twin) 2 100 ea. ? Junkyard, Garret, Turbocity
Intercooler 1-2 100 ? Junkyard, Cartech, Turbocity
Pipes 3" (Mandrel 180° U ) 4 HOK-12240 21.95 ea www.summitracing.com
Pipes 2" (Mandrel 180° U ) 4 HOK-12280 14.25 ea www.summitracing.com
Used Headers 1 set 50-70 Junk, BBS,swap meet
Injectors (30 lph) 1 set FMS-M9593B302 208.95 www.summitracing.com
Fuel pump 190lph in tank 1 99.99 Performance Parts Inc.
Alum. Heat Barrier, 40 in. x 36 in 1 THE-14001 81.69 www.summitracing.com
Turbo Hoses 3" Cartech, Turbocity
Oil Change
Oil filter 1
Coolant
Blow Off valve 1-2
Adjustable Fuel pressure regulator 1
Exhaust Clamps (2 and 3 inch) ?

TOTAL ??????? probably less than $1,000


Some Turbo's to look for:

Make OEM-Use Water - cooled? Compressor A/R Turbine A/R Down Pipe Size Max Boost
Garrett T04 (Allied Signal) ??
Garrett T03 (Allied Signal) 84 - 87 Turbo I
84 - 87 Chrysler 2.2L .48 2 1/4" 21-23 on 2.2L (os)
Mitsubishi TD04 88 - 93 Turbo I
88 Chrysler 2.2L
89 - 93 2.5L 88 2 1/4"
89 - 93 2 1/2" 17-18 psi on 2.5L (os)
Garrett TB03 (Allied Signal) 91 - 93 Turbo III - 16V DOHC
91 Dodge Spirit R/T
92-93 Daytona IROC R/T OEM - 11 psi
Garrett VNT-25 (Allied Signal) 89 - 90 Turbo IV
89 Shelby CSX; 90 LeBaron, Shadow, Daytona yes .63 VNT 2 1/2"
AIResearch (Garrett) T-03 83 - 84 Ford Thunderbird Turbo coupe (auto)
83 - 84 Mustang GT Turbo & GT 350 (auto) no .60 .48
AIResearch (Garrett) T-03 83 - 84 Ford Thunderbird Turbo coupe (std)
83 - 84 Mustang GT Turbo & GT 350 (std) no .60 .48
Garrett T-03 85 - 86 Ford Thunderbird Turbo coupe (auto) yes .60 .48
Garrett T-03 85 - 86 Ford Thunderbird Turbo coupe (std) yes .60 .63
IHI ?? 87 - 88 Ford Thunderbird Turbo coupe yes .?? .??

END of PART 2

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5

Last edited by dice; 10-14-2006 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 10-14-2006, 02:46 PM
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Summary:

This is section explains some of the most important details of the setup for a single or twin turbo Sn95: routing all the pipes, headers, and where to locate the Turbo units.

Details:

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5

Part 3


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The SN95 has a small engine bay, where the Ford designers had to put not only the engine but all those accessories and smog equipment.

On the drivers front side, we have the A/C and Steering pump, which leaves us with a small space above and between them to route the exhaust into the turbo. The passenger side has the Smog pump, smog lines and some A/C lines.

Also on the drivers side there's the POWER BOX which has some engine relays and fuses that power some important devices such as the EEC, fuel pump and some important equipment.
This box, if exposed to heat, can melt and probably cause some electrical failure or worse.

So, where do we start?

The first step involves moving your battery to the trunk, its a fairly easy thing to do. You can buy a complete kit at several places such as Summit Racing.

We suggest to choose the easiest (not necessarily fastest) path, and by that we mean, move and reroute everything that could be a possible restriction to a another place inside the engine.
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The Power box can be moved above the Brake Booster, for that you will need to REWIRE everything and route the wiring inside the fender well. THIS IS NO EASY task, but we think it can be done in a couple of days. We suggest that you get a shop manual with wiring diagrams if you want to do this. You can also use heat shields/insulators to protect the power box and it's harness.

For single and Twin setup there are some differences and Pro's /Con's on the installation.

A Twin turbo setup requires modified headers on both sides, then reconnect the exhaust back to the H pipe. Also on a twin setup you will need a BLOW THROUGH Maf, such as the one sold by Pro-Flow (Pro-M). More piping is also required for the intercooler(s).
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For a SINGLE setup, you will only need to modify or custom make one header, the other stays stock.
If you place the turbo on the passenger side, then the drivers side header remains stock, but you will need to cut the drivers side H pipe (reduce the length). The driver's side equal length header goes to a x-over pipe under the motor and then into the turbo manifold on the pass side.

SINGLE TURBO SETUP:Name:  diagram2.jpg
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If you followed the previous articles, by now you might have chosen one setup or the other, and if you are going single then keep reading, else skip this section and go to the Twin setup.

This is a partial list of parts you will need:

Turbo T04B: Garret / Turbonetics or similar turbo
Stock header (drivers side)
Header kit (Hedman) or modified header to make the turbo manifold
Intercooler(s)
Steel Pipes and bends of different diameters, mostly 2.5" and 3"
Assortment of 2.5" and 3" hoses and heavy duty clamps
High temperature RTV sealant and gasket maker
Header to H pipe flanges, header flanges, header gaskets, exhaust to turbo flange, turbo to exhaust flange, exhaust clamps.
Braided line for oil line(s)
Wastegate (if not included in Turbo)
Braided line for coolant lines (depending on turbo)
Boost gauge
High capacity Fuel pump, Injectors (30 recommended), FMU or custom chip
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The drivers side header is connected to a crossover pipe, which goes from the drivers side header, behind and underneath the motor (in between motor and tranny), and then comes back up connecting with the passenger side turbo manifold. That turbo manifold, connected with the drivers side header, feeds air forward into the turbo's compressor housing, and then out to a 2.5" downpipe. After the downpipe you will use a 2.5" Y-pipe which splits off into the catback exhaust.

TWIN TURBO SETUP:

For the Twin setup you would would need smaller Turbo's such as T3 units, luckily there are lots of cars that came factory with this kind of units:Chryslers, Saabs, Mitsus..etc, try too look for ones with factory wastegates and NON LIQUID cooled ones, they are easier to setup.

Turbo's T3s: Garret / Turbonetics or similar size turbo's
Header kit (Hedman) or modified header to make the turbo manifolds
Intercooler(s)
Steel Pipes and bends of different diameters, mostly 2.5" and 3"
Assortment of 2.5" and 3" hoses and heavy duty clamps
High temperature RTV sealant and gasket maker
Header to H pipe flanges, header flanges, header gaskets, exhaust to turbo flange, turbo to exhaust flange, exhaust clamps.
Braided line for oil line(s)
Wastegates (if not included in Turbo)
Braided line for coolant lines (depending on turbo)
Boost gauge
High capacity Fuel pump, Injectors (30 recommended), FMU or custom chip
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Now to hook it up all together there are some considerations, the twin setup takes more space than a single one, so you will have to relocate some stuff like the battery, a/c lines etc. Make sure you do this before any attempt to make the setup.

There are 2 main approaches for the twin setup, both with pro's and con's, the "simplest" is to use modified factory headers swapped LR-RL, where the turbo's will be placed on the battery and stock air box locations.

The second ones involves a bit more work to make the turbo manifolds. You can also use the LR-RL approach but in this case the TURBOS sit UNDER them, this is the approach INCON followed.

The exhaust gases will go directly into the turbo's inlet and directly form the turbo exhaust outlet into the H pipe. This setup requires less relocation and lots less piping. It is also less restrictive.

Useful sites with some actual setups

JB Racing Homepage Twin turbo 8 second mustang 5.0 build-up and tech (Very detailed pics)

www.gcoast.com/turbo/

www.turboford.org

www.dynotechracing.com (Incon setup)

Final Comments:

By no means this is over yet, PART 4 will be ready shortly with detailed ACTUAL images for both types of setups, so stay tuned.

END of PART 3

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5

Last edited by dice; 10-14-2006 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 10-14-2006, 02:48 PM
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Summary:

Well finally something to show to all interested in doing a TT setup at home, here's a very complete article written by our friend Chris Anderson.

Details:

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5

Part 4


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Even though his Stang is FOX, most of the procedures and stuff needed will be the same for a SN95 Steed.
Check our previous articles for tips on the installation on a SN95 model.


Other good news is that we will SELL TT Manifolds and Downpipe's, as to when...well i don't want to sound as the Calibrator guys but we think probably sometime around August 2000. These iron manifolds (not turned down headers) were modified to work for a TT setup. Well enough of vaporware, let's read Chris' article.

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These are what my intercooler started out as. Name:  cooler1.jpg
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Size:  32.2 KB Three individual units from 90-92 d.s.m. cars. 90-94 were all the same manual/ auto, front wheel, all-wheel it doesn't matter as long as they're turbo models. Each of these units are capable of efficiently cooling 200-250 hp worth of air. You do the math as to what they are capable of combined. Cost on these vary from place to place. New they are around $500 each, used as low as free to as much as $100 depending on condition. When looking at Intercoolers don't pay any attention to the shape of the end-tanks, they will be getting cut off anyway, the core is what you want to pay attention to. Look for obvious impact damage as well as small holes on the tube faces. Dented fins are not that big of a deal and can be worked straight with a small screwdriver. I paid as follows for these units, left-$10, center-$40, right-$50.
To connect them together you need to cut off the end-tanks, Make a cut about an 1/8" above the tank-to-core bond. Take them to a shop to have them mated side to side. It is critical that the weld be clean and will not create any leaks between the cores.



Once the cores are welded together you can get the dimensions for the new end tanks. Name:  tt1.jpg
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Size:  14.3 KB Don't forget to take into consideration the tubing inlet and outlet sizes. I recommend having an 1/8" above and below the pipes. This will give plenty of room to make the welds without making the unit larger than it needs to be, you can run out of space in a hurry. To have end-tanks made simply go to any steel supply company and have them create U-channels to fit directly on top of the cores. Just tell them the dimensions yo need or even bring it in and show it to them and tell them what you are doing. 1/8" plate T-5054 aluminum is perfect for this, it is strong yet flexible enough to bend. You will also need some aluminum tubing for your hose inlets, kinsler fuel injection is where I usually get my tubing from, that get welded to the ends of the end-tanks . I also recommend having the tube ends rolled to prevent the hoses from coming off under boost.







This is what your finished intercooler should look like. Name:  cooler2.jpg
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Size:  40.6 KB Notice the mounting tabs to secure the i.c. to the front radiator support. The unit is pictured up-side down. The 2, 2 1/4" inlets from the turbo's compressor discharge pipe will be at the top with the 3" outlet coming out of the bottom on the passenger side. I had to remove my front bumper-brace to get it up front. You can mount an i.c. flat under the vehicle if you so choose, but sometimes oil, power steering, and oil return lines might be an area of concern, and make it almost impossible if you ever wanted to run open dump tubes. The measurements on this unit are; 24" X 12.5" total height, 4" X 12.5" depth, the core dimensions are 24"L X 4"D X 6.5"H charge side(what is coming from the turbo's), 24"W X 6.5" H X 4" D ambient side (cooling air ). Total cost was about $300 to have everything done on this particular unit.That's not to bad considering that a spearco core about this size runs $700 +, not including the end-tanks. I used 2 1/4" rubber hose to connect the turbo's to the intercooler, and 3" from the intercooler to the motor. Simple 90, 60, 45 deg elbows are available from NAPA in the hose catalog.Some will say they are not good enough for turbo hose and will distort under high boost, if you're not going to be running 20+ pounds they will work fine. As you will see they are the same thing that ATI uses on it's procharger kits.



These are the air inlet tubes that bring air into the turbo's. Name:  ducts1.jpg
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Size:  28.8 KB Each one resides in the fender wells so the turbo's can get cool, dense air. The inlets are 3" and after the bends neck down to 2 1/4". I fabricated these out of 3" mild steel 90 & 45 deg. tubing with 2 1/4" straight pipe I had a muffler shop flare out to 3" then welded and painted them. If you use .080" + tubing you should be able to get it to expand to 3". One 9"(RE-0810) & one 6"(RE-0930) K&N conical filter will be attached to each pipe. Making this is something you will need a welder for. Ignore the dates on these pictures, if I really did this back in 94 I would be famous.






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There are a few things I recommend when running a turbo motor. First being, take the motor apart and put in ARP head studs. If you ever nuke a gasket they will pay for themselves, they are also very strong and will do wonders for gasket retention. I use fel-pro stock replacement graphite head gaskets w/ my o-ringed block. I you're not detonating they'll hold fine. Second, get some form of A/F monitoring tool. EGT is my personal favorite. For about $140 you can save yourself a world of hurt. Third, a fuel press guage is just as important as a boost guage. If you don't have one, get one! Fourth, If you have the money, go aluminum heads. Something with good deck material to it like the TFS, Edelbrock, Canfield, AFR, etc., They have so many advantages it's not funny. They will also give you great expandability later.






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A lot to cover in this picture. Here you can see the upside-down mounted MAC headers, the 2 1/2 " connector pipes, driver side turbo, relocated power steering pump, oil feed line from the oil press. sending unit, loose water coolant lines that run from the heater core lines to the turbo's, and the modified factory rails. The headers and pipe are easy enough to understand, but I want to let you know about the other stuff. I had to fabricate a relocation system for the power steering pump to clear the turbo feed pipe and the dump pipe. I think a bracket from an 85 non-a/c car would have worked, but I couldn't find one, and I wasn't going to pay $75 for the Ford motorsports one. Oil lines are just plumbed into the press. sending unit by tapping it w/ a 1/8" NPT tap and installing a T-fitting to feed both turbos, You will also need to run the return lines to the oil pan, use -12 line so there isn't any flow restriction. Try to get the return lines when you buy the turbo's. If you get t-25s from 95's- up the owner should have them because the upgrade kits from HRC and others come with new lines. (there was an oil feed line change in mid-95, if it isn't 1/4" inverted flare you need to get an adapter from Hann Racecraft (630) 801-1417, and might end up running braided line) The water coolant lines in just took from the heater core hoses. You will need (2) 1/4" X 3/8" Tee available from NAPA. I used regular 3/8" fuel line to get water to the turbo's. All DSM cars utilize water cooled turbo's, you will need to purchase new waterline crush washers and possibly the hard lines that attach to the turbo's as well. I modified my factory rails to accept two -6 inlets. What I did was drill and tap the passenger side rail end for a 1/4" NPT fitting, cut off the factory feed line and tapped that for an 1/8" NPT. I installed a separate gauge port in the 1/8" and a 1/4"X -6 fitting in the other. On the drivers side rear I installed a T w/ a 1/4" NPT -6 fitting w/ an 1/8" gauge port.



Here you can see the two -6 lines coming from the NOS -8 to -6 Y. The radiator hose also had to be modified to keep it from burning on the turbo pipe.
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This is the completed motor as it sits in the car now. Here you can see a few things I would like to touch on. One; Wires, these are Accel 8.8 race wires, get the ones with the heat covering on them, spend the $100 up-front rather than after you burn your $60 set the first time. Two; The Howe 31" X 19" aluminum radiator and Flex-lite Black Magic fan are awesome. I had to replace my stock one after I put on the aluminum heads. It was running a little warmer maybe do to there better heat dissipation, but try it without it and see what happens. Three; If that piping on the MAF looks like an ATI pro-charger setup, that's because it is. I ordered it directly from ATI because it fit my set up, was reasonably priced, and Pro-m could perfectly match the meter to the elbow. it was a win all the way around. There are just a few other things I would like to share my insight on. Monitoring devices; I recommend having an EGT, ACT, knock meter, Fuel press. gauge, boost press., and maybe some form of timing retard if you don't plan on having some form of engine management like a PMS, EPEC, DFI, EEC tuner, etc. I highly recommend getting an engine management system because if you factor in the cost of knock retard systems you're not that much more to taking complete control of your whole engine. I personally am going with an EPEC, as a matter of fact there is one on its way right now. The reason why is that my 88 cal. MAF computer died while I was in the Twin Cities at the Back to the fifties show. I had to bum a computer to get me home. I found out that a new computer was $125 w/ a $150 core because I didn't want another 88 Cal. computer so I was going to have to eat the core. $275 for a stock computer? Yeah Right!! So without a computer I had two choices, 1) DFI or 2) EPEC. After having $300 into an MAF and not wanting to change over to all GM sensors I figured EPEC. I tell you when you buy one of these things you get great help. I purchased mine from Laroccas Performance and Jimmy is great. He might not have a ton of experience with turbo cars, but he does know the EPEC's inside and out as well as supercharged cars. Plus he's a great guy to talk to. He'll do just about anything to help you. Being realistic; Be honest with yourself as to your abilities and monetary backing. I will tell you, I have been working on this system for over a year, and have had the idea in my brain for over three. So I've had time to think everything through many times and there were still complications. Something like this is not an over the weekend deal, Just call up Incon, TDC, Cartech, Turbo Technology, and see how long it took them to make something from an idea, and keep in mind they had engineers working many hours a day, and lots of experience to know what works and doesn't. If anyone does make themselves a KICK *** homemade single or twin turbo car, I tell you there isn't many things in this world better than going mach 1 past the other guy, then popping the hood to show everyone what you made yourself. It's great, trust me!!

I do want to warn all the people who are going to try and attempt what I have done, there is more cost involved than meets the eye. I recommend that they be completely honest with themselves about the money, time, blood, sweat and tears it takes to accomplish this. It will be a lot nicer for them if you could supply manifolds and dump-pipes, that is a major part of the fabrication requirements, however there is much, much more. To cost effectively accomplish this there are certain things that they will have to find used, or very cheap. If you do not have above average fabrication & mechanical skills,...save your money and buy a kit!! Think about it, guys are buying complete kits and still having them proof. installed. All welding, R&D, parts matching and so on has all been done for you, and they are still having someone put it in for them. If they are not warned up front of some of the difficulties and extra money requirements there are going to be a lot of unfinished projects out there with very disappointed owners. Please understand my feelings on this.It wouldn't do the hobby any good if people get turned away by a failed project. This is a break down of the primary parts that are on the car.

Last edited by dice; 10-14-2006 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 10-14-2006, 02:49 PM
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Part 4 continued....

**********************************MOTOR & DRIVETRAIN**************************************

Turbos ................................................Du al t-25 garrett/mitsu's from 95 eclipses
Intercooler ..........................................(3) 90-92 talon/eclipse/laser intercoolers
I.C.Piping ...........................................2 1/4" from turbo's / 3" From I.C. to motor
Bypass valve ......................................Stock 90 talon
Engine ...............................................Sto ck 302
Heads ................................................T. F.S. twisted wedge 2.02/1.60 valves
Rockers........................................... ...Erson 1.6 fordged aluminum rollers
Pushrods.......................................... ..T.F.S. 6.600" length cromemoly
Intake ................................................St ock 87 upper-ported/ lower-welded&ported
Throttle Body .....................................Stock 60mm ' 87
Injectors ............................................38 lb/hr Lucas
Mass Airflow Sensor ..........................Pro-M 75mm Bullet
Blow-Thru w/optimizer Computer .........Stock 88 cal. maf-sfi
Cam .................................................S tock
Pistons .............................................Stock 86 flat tops
Compression .....................................9.5-9.7:1
Rods ................................................St ock
Crank ...............................................Sto ck
Ignition .............................................MSD- 6A
Wires ...............................................Acc el 8.8 race wires w/ high temp sheild
Fuel rails ..........................................Stock modified for dual -6 inlets
Pressure Regulator ............................A.F.M Adjustable
Billet Pump, Main Tank .....................190 LPH SVO Pump,
Race Cell .........................................(2) stock Syclone/Typhoon
Fuel Line ..........................................-8 from tanks to motor (2) -6 from y to rails
Headers ........................................... 1 5/8" MAC's w/ 2 1/2" pipe to turbo's
Down Pipes ......................................2 1/2" from Turbo's to H-Pipe
Wastegate .......................................(2) Stock Eclipse
H-pipe ..............................................Hook er Off-Road 2 /1/2"
Mufflers ............................................Hooker Max-Flo's 2 1/2"
Tail Pipes .........................................Hooker 2 1/2" Aluminized
Transmission ....................................Stock T-5
Clutch ..............................................Stoc k
Rear-End ..........................................8.8 w/ 3.55's and svo carrier
Tires,Front ........................................205/60/15 BFG's
Tires, Rear ........................................275/50/15 BFG's T/A & Comp T/A Drags
Suspension
Front ................................................70/30 lakewoods w/ Moroso drag srings
Rear ................................................st ock w/ air bags in coils
Guages ............................................Autome ter 2" boost/ water temp, 2 5/8 Fuel press. Casper elect. Knock meter, ACT, EGT
******************************TUNE UP**********************************************
Fuel Type .........................................93 in main tank/ 110 Conoco in cell
Timimg .............................................4-5 Deg. Initial w/stock computer
Plug Type .........................................A/C R42XLS
Gap .................................................. 035"
Boost Retard .....................................None
Fuel Press. .......................................42psi static/ 52-53psi @ full boost
E.G.T ...............................................148 0-1520 deg. 1" from head on #3
Cyl A.C.T @ T.B................................100-110 deg @ 10psi w/ 75 deg ambient
MAF Volts @Idle ...............................700-.730
E.G.T @ Idle .................................... 750-850 deg.
Idle Speed ........................................800-850 rpm
T.P.S. @ Idle ....................................98 volts
[email protected] W.O.T .................................4.899 volts
Boost ................................................7-10 psi
Performance
60' ...........................................1.973
330 ...........................................5.345
1/8 ............................................8.120
1/4 ...........................................12.464
MPH ........................................114.12 60'


This was my first time out with this combo and the BFG drag radials. I was leaving the line at 3,000 rpm and goosing it on the last yellow. The front end would fly up and I was afraid they were going to break loose, so I would lift ever so slightly and the motor would drop out of boost and bog. As soon as I'd get back into it she'd dead hook and leave hard, as the photos show. This was @ 7psi!

END of PART 4

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5
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Old 10-14-2006, 03:26 PM
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Summary:

Here's another installation example courtesy of M.M. Alexander, a more complete article is on the works, but as you can see, the same basic elements and pipe routing are used, except that M.M. uses Crown Vic iron manifolds instead of headers.

Details:

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5

Part 5


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

M.M.s Green stang was rear ended by a 85 F150 going 50mph...ouch....thas why he is redoing most of the setup.

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END of PART 5

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5

Hope this helps...Enjoy.
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Old 10-14-2006, 05:45 PM
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well i dont have time ot read all that, but it looks like good info! :thumb1:
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Old 10-14-2006, 09:08 PM
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Just figured I'd post it to help people interested in installing turbo's instead of wasting alot of time searching the internet for info. This was the best info I have found so far. It explains everything. Good read.
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Old 10-15-2006, 12:17 AM
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its cheaper to order a kit. 99% of people will not go an buy a welder and all the proper stuff needed to make a turbo kit. I have made my own twice now. I just order a new hotside and I found it just as cheap and easier to order a hot side. Hot side can be purchased for 550 US from soe companies.
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Old 10-15-2006, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Speedtospare
its cheaper to order a kit. 99% of people will not go an buy a welder and all the proper stuff needed to make a turbo kit. I have made my own twice now. I just order a new hotside and I found it just as cheap and easier to order a hot side. Hot side can be purchased for 550 US from soe companies.
Could you please post companies? thanks.
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